I've resurrected this thread because I had my obese friend (the subject of this thread) admit to me that she needs to change and lose weight yesterday. But she pretty much said she thinks it's wrong to do it with any regard to appearance and that it's superficial to let appearance be part of the equation. She said, "I want to be healthy, but I'm not trying to be what society tells me I should, but if that's what you want, that's fine."

See, I'd written an entry on a personal blog I keep that she's also a contact on. It was a little rant about how I think it's wrong to assume that someone who looks after their appearance is somehow a completely shallow person. I also said that someone who rejects a potential romantic partner because they aren't physically attracted to them is not a bad person and it's unfair to call them "shallow." I went on to say that I'm not attracted to fat men, so should I not want to be a total hypocrite, I ought to have a physique that's closer to what I personally find attractive (otherwise I'd be like those wacky FA ladies!).

She completely missed the point, and I had to further explain it to her that I am losing weight for health, but being healthy does make one more attractive, usually, by default. And I'm enjoying that vanity aspect, and it doesn't make me a less multidimensional and intelligent being. I also went into WHY I don't find fat attractive. I didn't talk about the pendulous rolls and manboobs making me want to barf, which is true. I talked more of the illustration of the kind of lifestyle a person lives, and I'm not content with someone who's fine with a lazy and unhealthy lifestyle and overeating/eating junk.

She says she wants to change, though. Her favorite cat died recently and she's been depressed about that obviously (I'd be sad, too. Pets are family). So she said she's let herself go again because of that. I told her instead of moping and lying around the house, start dedicating any exercise to her late kitty. I even told her that her cat wouldn't want to see her wallowing in sadness. Mourning is a process, but you can't spend too much time in that depressive, wallowing state or you'll never be able to move on. I tried to give her some comforting words about that. Fat or thin, everyone loves their pets just like family.

Her husband's cousin is also good friends with all of us (and I used to date him once upon a time, hehe). He goes over to their house for dinner way more than I do. I've never had her actually cook for me in the years after she turned morbidly obese. Whenever I've gone over to eat it's because I'm cooking. He said that the food itself isn't terrible (although he said they could do well with a few more fresh veggies at the table - she relys on frozen too much). But he said that the portions she gives out are gargantuan! If she plates the food, it's piled over with food spilling off it. Her hubby is underweight and probably blows through all the calories because he rides his bike everywhere and does more active stuff than she does. But even he stops after one plate. His cousin says he can barely ever finish a plate. She puts away at least 2, and then breaks out ice cream for dessert.

One positive thing is that in her reply to my entry she said she does want to lose weight for any future kids they may have, and she wants to be able to do normal things. But she still kind of spitefully said that appearance should have no bearing whatsoever. That it's only for her health. Then she went on to say that if I want to exercise with her she'd like that.

I wouldn't have a problem with that, but in the past when we've attempted to work out together, I'm way more willing to push myself than she is and I end up getting a crappy workout because she wants me to wait up for her and she's sooooooooooooo sloooooooooow. She needs to get self motivated to work out by herself simply because that's a necessary thing to success. I told her I'd be a source of support, but that she can't rely on me or others to keep her in a workout routine. She has to be the one to do it herself. I honestly hated that one day a few years back when we went to a trail to walk/jog, and she didn't want to accelerate past a snail's pace, and got whiny when I was ahead of her, wanting me to wait up for her. Ugh.

It's funny because I'm simultaneously happy that she's at least acknowledging that it's time to do something, but I'm also skeptical that she'll be able to even stick to anything. I'll try to be optimistic. She used to be fun when she was small enough to get on a roller coaster and climb up some stairs without having a wheezing attack. I'd love to see the old her come back. But she just for some reason never sticks to any of this stuff when she attempts it.

I believe that as long as she needs a partner to exercise, someone to cook for her and all the other support.....it won't last and she will go back to her old ways.
She needs to be determined to do it for herself, by herself and alone!
Yes, some support is nice but if she relies on it, it doesn't work.

On another note, I would have a very hard time being friends with someone like her.
The few real friends I have are all leading a similar lifestyle and want to be healthy and fit. I can't watch somebody destroy their health and life so I stay away from those people, this is way too frustrating for me and I don't need to invite frustration into my life....it comes uninvited in some cases

Oh for crissakes, which is worse anyway, being vain or being selfish? Because she certainly sounds like she expects the world to revolve around her personal woes. It also seems that in her book it's perfectly alright for her to insinuate that you are shallow - but God forbid that you should repay the compliment by hinting at her being a lazy and gluttonous hypocrite.

Imo one basic rule of exercise etiquette is that if you want to join someone who is fitter/better/stronger, you have to make it absolutely clear that you won't hold them up - but rather try to come up with solutions like running only part of the course together and then joining up again later, making it clear that you are ok with resting alone at intervals without others keeping you company etc.

It's also impossible to support/coach someone if you don't have permission to be brutally honest about what is wrong. If you are to be of any real help to her you must be allowed to comment freely on her destructive habits without her getting angry. Would it be possible for you to negotiate such a deal with her - that is to offer to help only on condition that she accepts any and all criticism in good grace?

Namaste wrote:

QUOTE:
... "...I'm not trying to be what society tells me I should..."

With this (il)logic, she should forgo showering, putting on any makeup, brushing her teeth, putting on deodorant, the list goes ridiculously on.

There are incidents and extremes that I'd agree with fighting against societal expectations but, this (being fit and attractive and healthy!) is not one of them.

By each of us taking care of our health and attraction level, we are contributing to a more positive cooperative society. The same as doing gestures such as smiles or nods to strangers.

Using her (il)logic again, I should greet any stranger I meet with an angry face because society expects me to be courteous. It is that absurd.

QUOTE:
...I think it's wrong to assume that someone who looks after their appearance is somehow a completely shallow person. I also said that someone who rejects a potential romantic partner because they aren't physically attracted to them is not a bad person and it's unfair to call them "shallow." I went on to say that I'm not attracted to fat men, so should I not want to be a total hypocrite, I ought to have a physique that's closer to what I personally find attractive (otherwise I'd be like those wacky FA ladies!)...

What's worse, shallow or selfish? Though I know it isn't shallow to look after our appearances and health, let's go with the PC insanity. At least by being shallow I'm still positively contributing to others. Not only am I something pleasing to look at, I'm also less of a burden as my level of health minimizes the taxation of resources at hospitals so the doctors can focus their energy on emergencies that aren't the result of someone's selfish, unhealthy, gluttonous lifestyle.

All good points, Wukong. I tell you what, she's on her high horse about her "morality" regarding weight loss strictly for health and not for vanity, but the second she finds herself fitting into cuter clothes (assuming she can stick to a weight loss plan without the usual excuses to backslide) she WILL enjoy it, and she WILL get a kick out of it, then she will eat some serious crow for chiding ME for enjoying the fact that I look hotter.

She also mentioned in our correspondence that she wants to have more healthy dinner nights. It was everything in me not to say, "We tried that already, and you didn't like my cooking apparently, remember?"

QUOTE:
Imo one basic rule of exercise etiquette is that if you want to join someone who is fitter/better/stronger, you have to make it absolutely clear that you won't hold them up -

I think you have something there Mary.

The problem with those who use the 'shallow' lines are that they want to do what they want, whilst getting the results they want, and life doesn't work that way.

Its like saying 'i want good grades, but don't want to study', well you can't have that.

And these people who use the shallow lines also want to have sex, but they don't want to put effort into looking after themselves, which is needed because sex is a physical activity, so its not hard to understand why some physical attraction would come into it.

They say they want to be loved because of who they are on the inside.....so why do they get annoyed when people just want to be friends?

The main differance between a friendship and a relationship is sex.

By being just friends they are being loved for who they are.....oh wait but they want the physical sex too?

And theres the problem. Again, they want to do what they want, whilst also getting the results they want, and everyones 'shallow' who doesn't go for it.

People can't just magic being turned on.

Its not 'bowing to society' by putting effort into things.

Thats like saying 'i'm not going to work on my attitude and be nice because society expects me too, so i'll be an asshole and people are bad if they don't accept it'.

The whole 'accept me as i am' thing only works up to a point, then it becomes 'accept me without me putting any effort into anything', and it just doesn't work.

loveloving wrote:

QUOTE:
I believe that as long as she needs a partner to exercise, someone to cook for her and all the other support.....it won't last and she will go back to her old ways.
She needs to be determined to do it for herself, by herself and alone!
Yes, some support is nice but if she relies on it, it doesn't work.

On another note, I would have a very hard time being friends with someone like her.
The few real friends I have are all leading a similar lifestyle and want to be healthy and fit. I can't watch somebody destroy their health and life so I stay away from those people, this is way too frustrating for me and I don't need to invite frustration into my life....it comes uninvited in some cases:)

Very, very true! You have to be self motivated and I told her this. It's fun to exercise and eat healthy with other people, but she can't RELY on others to DO it for her. I for one can't be around 24 hours a day to counsel her.

I do have a hard time being friends with her these days. She wasn't always like this, she used to like going out and doing active things like hiking and bike riding. She was always kind of a little chubby, but I think because she was so active she managed to keep it to where she was only 40 lbs. overweight as opposed to how she is now. It's like she completely let herself go when she met her husband. I haven't seen her since her wedding which was in April. I'm finding it harder to have fun with friends who are content with being sedentary and overeating. Put away the chips and the video games and go for walk, you know?

Mary45 wrote:

QUOTE:
Oh for crissakes, which is worse anyway, being vain or being selfish? Because she certainly sounds like she expects the world to revolve around her personal woes. It also seems that in her book it's perfectly alright for her to insinuate that you are shallow - but God forbid that you should repay the compliment by hinting at her being a lazy and gluttonous hypocrite.

Imo one basic rule of exercise etiquette is that if you want to join someone who is fitter/better/stronger, you have to make it absolutely clear that you won't hold them up - but rather try to come up with solutions like running only part of the course together and then joining up again later, making it clear that you are ok with resting alone at intervals without others keeping you company etc.

It's also impossible to support/coach someone if you don't have permission to be brutally honest about what is wrong. If you are to be of any real help to her you must be allowed to comment freely on her destructive habits without her getting angry. Would it be possible for you to negotiate such a deal with her - that is to offer to help only on condition that she accepts any and all criticism in good grace?

Mary you hit it on the head once again I haven't yet talked to her about our differing fitness levels and how it might be best to maybe go to work out together, yet separately (i.e. I'll run, you walk, we meet here in 2 hours?). If she asks again I'll suggest that. I'm kind of jaded at this point because this is a person who's "tried" so many times and always uses excuses to give up, and I'm at the point where I'm exhausted and don't really want to put more energy into it. I just feel bad for her husband, who is an awesome and sweet guy!

She has a really hard time accepting any criticism and always has an excuse on the ready!